Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of unlawfully killed transgender people

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) –Davey2010^Talk 00:25, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

List of unlawfully killed transgender people

List of unlawfully killed transgender people (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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The list fails because there are very few indications in the article of these deaths occurring because the victims were transgender. An article covering the death of transgender people generally could be written in the style of Migrant deaths along the Mexico–United States border, but as it stands, this list hints at a causal relationship, without coming right out and saying so. StAnselm (talk) 19:12, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Everymorning (talk) 20:11, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. Rab V (talk) 00:22, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

• Keep. It's not terribly difficult to find sources for some of these cases that specifically identify them as hate crimes. For example, Brandon Teena is an especially famous case. This article at The Advocate quite explicitly states that Teena was raped and murdered specifically because of transphobia. This article from The Advocate also details various transphobic hate crimes. This article from Time also discusses the issue and discusses the murder of Elisha Walker. The subject of transphobic hate crimes in general has been covered in reliable sources, such as The New York Times in this article, The Atlantic in this article, Vice in this article, and The Washington Post in this article. You just need to use the proper Google keywords, really. I think there's a bit of original research in the article, but that's not a reason to delete it. The topic seems fairly prominent in reliable sources, and there has been significant coverage of transphobic hate crimes recently. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:10, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

But which ones are hat crimes? All of them? In this case, why isn't that the subject of the article? StAnselm (talk) 08:16, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

• Keep. I don't see the article implying that the deaths are directly caused by them being trans, but it lists a source in the beginning indicating that being trans and getting murdered are pretty correlated. Either way, your criticism sounds like something that could be dealt with by editing the page in some way. In that case this isn't a reason to delete this page, but I do agree it could use more editing to be more in the style of the list you posted. Like it says in the deletion policy, "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page." Rab V (talk) 05:16, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

But which entries do I remove? All the ones that don't explicitly call the killing a hate crime? StAnselm (talk) 08:16, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

That sounds like a discussion for the talk page, not AFD. But as the article isn't explicitly only about hate crimes, and the definition of a hate crime can depend on locale, I'd argue that would be a poor criteria. As the article is written now, I don't see a need to only include hate crimes as well since it isn't arguing that being trans directly causes higher murder rates. It only discusses correlation not causation. There are research articles that discuss reasons besides direct causation that could put transgender people at higher risks for violence, like this. That could be used to further clarify things. Rab V (talk) 08:47, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 10:50, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Social science-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 10:50, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

• Keep. - per WP:GNG.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:59, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:WWIN, specifically WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Unfortunately, hate crimes are relatively common and our goal should not be to catalog them. I agree with those that believe the topic should be addressed in Wikipedia and it is. Notable examples that meet WP:NOTNEWS (i.e. pass WP:EVENT) can be discussed in Violence against LGBT people or in appropriate sub-articles (e.g. History of violence against LGBT people in the United States). - Location (talk) 13:07, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
• Keep. Most educational and highly encyclopedic. Obviously more than amply passes WP:NOTE. Quite well referenced. Nicely done. — Cirt (talk) 13:43, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
• Keep per Cirt et al. This is not one of our best articles, but it is one of our most useful. I don't know of anywhere else on the web that you can find such useful, obviously important and notable information about a hot topic like this. To state that trans people are not killed because they are trans is not even wrong. Bearian (talk) 01:47, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
• Keep As list of incidents in a defined category of crime.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:39, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
• This list is awful. Seems to be turning into a list for the sake of lists. But awful is not grounds for deletion. Fix it, but Keep User:Bastique 18:09, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
• Keep - Per IAR. Carrite (talk) 15:25, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
• Keep This list has merit and addresses a notable topic. The only odd thing about it is that unlike most lists of this sort, it lacks an "anchor" page that links to it and provides a discussion of the topic and some context. Certainly, if there's any question as to the veracity of the reports or the citations, that should be addressed separately. I would also love to see work done on identifying more incidents in the past. I suspect violence against transgender people didn't suddenly explode in 2012. On a style matter, and for the sake of transparent debate and for those not conversant with the initialisms of the Wikipedia namespace, please try not to cite policy without context and support.--69.204.153.39 (talk) 21:09, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.